46b-D’Agosto and Carnicelli Families-Agropoli and Brooklyn

Acknowledgement

The genealogical research by Anthony Vermandois of ImaginesMaiorum-Ancestors from Campania forms the basis of this posting. We have used Anthony’s charts of descent for the following families:

Charts for D’Agosto Family Lines

Carnicelli Family http://www.imaginesmaiorum.net/surname.cfm?id=582

Taddeo Family http://www.imaginesmaiorum.net/surname.cfm?id=134

d’Agosto Family http://www.imaginesmaiorum.net/surname.cfm?id=668

Introduction

This posting serves as a bridge between our introduction of Giuseppe D’Agosto in 46a-D’Agosto Family – Giuseppe comes to America and the three part series that follows this current posting. There are two Giuseppes in this narrative as well as what appeared to be a tenuous relationship between our families through the D’Agosto matriarch, Rafaella Carnicelli D’Agosto, and our matriarch, Giuseppa Carnicelli Ruocco (part of the Muro line).

Uncle Sammy and I are glad we paused to look through all these factors because the findings enabled us to be more accurate in our three part series. It also helped us understand how easily one can mistake a paeasano (friend from the old hometown) for a cugina or cugino (cousin). We also resorted to the expedient device of calling one of the Giuseppes by his American name of Joseph since that is what he used most often for the Census interviews.  You will meet Joseph Carnicelli in the next posting.

If any confusion remains after you read this posting, please put your questions into the Comment section and we’ll add more information.

Relationship Notes

Giuseppe D’Agosto was the son of Francesco and Raffaela (nee Carnicelli) D’Agosto. He married Philomena Serrapede in the early 1920s. Philomena was the eldest sister of Sabato Serrapede.

Sabato Serrapede was Sammy’s father and EmilyAnn’s maternal Grandfather. As a result, Giuseppe is our relative by marriage through Philomena.

Philomena and Giuseppe D’Agosto were:

—Sammy’s maternal Aunt and Uncle
—EmilyAnn’s Great Aunt and Great Uncle on the maternal line.

Introduction

Uncle Sammy remembered Julia Carnicelli who lived with her family on 65th Street in Dyker Heights during the 1940s and 1950s.

On 65th Street and 11th Avenue, Aievoli Grocery Store had a parking lot next to the store. Uncle Sammy’s friend Butchie Mormando lived next to the parking lot. After Butchie’s house came the Carnicelli’s house. A driveway separated to two houses which each had a garage at the end of the driveway. After this was a big open lot that was once owned by the church. It is now the site of a row of condos.

Uncle Sammy said his parents called the family of Carmella Carnicelli their paesanos from Agropoli. He wanted to know if at some point the Carnicelli line in Giuseppe D’Agosto’s family intermarried into the direct line of our branch of the Carnicelli family.

For this exercise we used the charts of descent from ImaginesMaiorum and the pedigree charts from Ancestry.

The link to the Carnicelli family in our direct line

46b-muro-carnicelli_zpskaitjt1u

Uncle Sammy’s pedigree chart.

Giuseppa Carnicelli was:

—Sammy’s 3rd Great Grandmother
—EmilyAnn’s 4th Great Grandmother

The only entry we have for Giuseppa Carnicelli is in the Ruocco family chart of descent for our direct line. There is no date of birth or date of marriage. So far Anthony Vermandois at ImaginesMaiorum does not have an entry for Giuseppa or her parents in the charts for the Carnicelli families. In fact, he puts a question mark after her name in the entries for the birth of Nicola Ruocco (born before 1825) and his brother Luigi (born circa 1856). Since we do not have the names of Giuseppa Carnicelli’s parents it is not possible to tell if her branch of the Carnicelli family is related to the branch of the Carnicelli family that Giuseppe D’Agosto is descended from. 

The link to the Carnicelli family in Giuseppe D’Agosto’s line

46b-dagosto20rafaella20carnicelli_zpszvveas76

Pedigree chart for Giuseppe D’Agosto before adding his mother’s lineage.

Giuseppe D’Agosto’s mother Raffaela Carnicelli was born in 1867. She appears as the wife of Francesco D’Agosto in the charts of descent for the D’Agosto family. Since we do not have any information about the lineage of our ancestress Giuseppa Carnicelli we cannot determine if a relationship existed to Raffaela’s family. Anthony Vermandois does have extensive data about Raffaela’s lineage that may be useful at a future time if more data turns up on our Giuseppa Carnicelli. In preparation for such a development, Uncle Sammy and I added the lineage of Raffaela Carnicelli to our tree. This results in an expanded pedigree chart for Giuseppe D’Agosto along his maternal line.

46b-giuseppe20dagosto20more_zpswi8fdije

Expanded pedigree chart for Giuseppe D’Agosto containing his mother’s lineage.

By adding the information from Anthony’s research we were able to go further back into the maternal lineage of Giuseppe’s mother Raffaela Carnicelli. The Carnicelli line from which Giuseppe D’Agosto is descended has been documented by Anthony up to the early 19th century. I could not find any common relatives after that time so for now we do not think there is a blood relationship between the our Giuseppa Carnicelli and Rafaella Carnicelli. They are as far as we can tell descended from different branches of the Carnicelli family.

Giuseppe D’Agosto’s maternal grandmother was Maria Scotti (born circa 1809). Again, a comparison of the descendants of Maria’s line with our direct line Scotti ancestors did not turn up any common ancestors.

Conclusion

This review supports the discussion and readings we used to prepare posting no. 24-The Muro and Serrapede Families in Agropoli: How close were our ancestors related to each other?  where we discussed what measures were in place to prevent marriage of close relatives within the same family. The Catholic Church would not marry first or second cousins. There were exceptions made for those who could make payments to the church. This is one reason why the aristocracy saw a higher rate of marriage to close cousins. However, our ancestors were not in that class. For these reasons, we would consider the Carnicelli family who lived on 65th Street our paesanos since they came from Agropoli. The same would be said for the D’Agosto family. Although the D’Agosto and Muro families had matriarchs who married into their lines from the Carnicelli family, each matriarch was from a different branch of that family. Since they all were born and lived in Agropoli, the correct designation is paeasano (person from same hometown).

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5 thoughts on “46b-D’Agosto and Carnicelli Families-Agropoli and Brooklyn

  1. Great job explaining all this. I know how I struggle to explain all the convoluted connections in my trees. In fact, my next post shows how three of my lines all are intertwined by marriages. I guess that’s what happened in small towns like those where our ancestors lived.

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    • Thank you, Amy! I can tell from your postings, too. You do a good job of keeping the names together as well as the connections. I think doing that at the start helps. Still, it is dizzying at times. If I don’t comment in great detail it’s only because it takes awhile for things to sink into my mind. I do, though, get the overall meanings of the experiences your family went through.

      It’s always a little easier, sometimes, for those inside the family to put the connections into the bigger picture since the names are more familiar. But that isn’t always true so having a method to reiterate the connections is always good.

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  2. Bonjour Emily,
    Merci beaucoup pour cette suite de série très instructive
    En lisant tes posts, je suis consciente de ton travail de recherche bien acharné
    Passe une belle journée et merci pour le partage sur mon blog
    Bisous

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